Introduction

This episode is called connecting with your teenagers. Maybe you have teenagers right now. Maybe you remember having teenagers. Maybe you have children who will one day be teenagers. Maybe you are nowhere near having kids at all.

I think that there are things that will be shared in this episode that will be valuable for any stage. And especially if you happen to be nearing or in the middle of it, the way that I am, my kids are 8, 11 and 13 right now. So, I have one “official teenager.” You’ve heard from him a couple different times on this podcast; my oldest Milo.

I have an 11-year-old who is very much in tween zone and we talk about him, as a tween, he’s on the cusp of teenager hood. And then my eight-year-old, who is just a solid grade school age with all the fun that accompanies that these are different stages of development, different ways of seeing the world different ways of seeing yourself and all of it.

I’m going to say, especially starting about 11, 12, this transition from middle age, from school age child into between, and teen feels like an official closing of one chapter of development and moving onto another, it feels like a real solid pivot point for me and for us and in observing my own kids in recognizing the changes in their behavior expectation their thought process, the way that their brains even compute things, it’s really different than it was when they were younger and different than expected.

And I’m thrilled today to have a conversation with one of my friends and teen connection expert, Brooke Romney, who is ahead of me in the parenting game. She has four kids ages, 20 18, 16 and 11, almost 12. She’s just that step ahead. And so wise, so connected. So candid, I will share a little bit more about her as I get ready to jump into the interview.

The conversation I want to start by, let’s just talk a little bit about life lately.

Segment: Life Lately

As I’m recording this, the mornings in Richmond, Virginia are in the sixties and the afternoons are in the nineties. We are in that very sandwich feeling of fall, where I get the little teas of sweater, weather, and then back to wearing shorts and a t-shirt in the middle of the day, I did pull out all our Halloween decorations.

I told Plum we’re not going to put up the actual Halloween, like spooky stuff. We have some skeletons and bats and spiderwebs. Those things were going to wait until October 1st, but I pulled our pumpkins out. I invested in a really great set of faux pumpkins. I think originally from Home Depot, I will try to see if I can find it and put the link in the show notes.

It comes as a set of three stacking pumpkins, and sometimes I stack them and sometimes I just lay them out. This is going to be our first holiday season in our new house and our previous house. Had a big front porch with about six steps leading up to what was like a room sized front porch. I loved decorating the steps.

I loved decorating the porch. And I think I invested in these pumpkins to go all up and down the stairway on the way to the porch. So, it was interesting to pull them out of storage and to evaluate my front yard. My, the front of my house. We have one step onto a small Portico stoop. There isn’t a porch there isn’t a big hill there was on our last house.

And so, I scattered pumpkins across the front. Planters, basically there’s some a couple little pumpkins and some cabbage and moms. I grabbed a couple things at the local nursery just to put in terracotta pots on the stoop step. Really there’s like the sidewalk one step and then the actual stoop.

So, I did a couple things right there, but then it’s turned out so cute to, instead of having all the steps of the porch to put these big faux pumpkins in between my boxwood. Plants in these front planters that span the front of the house. I will take a picture and post it on the show notes of this episode.

If you want to get a feel for this kind of adjusted harvest Halloween decoration, using the same things that I have used in the past in a new way, I will share that with you there. The other fun update to this new house is a small one with huge impact. I had bought some Cedar shake shingles back in like February, right after we moved into this house.

I recognized from the front. And if you go to the show notes, you’ll see the front of the house that there was this little awning over the Portico and these little triangles above the dormer windows. There are two dormers on the front of the house and it’s a white house with black shutters and a black door.

It’s cute, pretty, simple looking. And I thought it just could use a little warmth. There’s something about just adding a little warmth with wood. And texture that I thought would be great. So, I bought these shingles months ago and last week turned in my first grad school paper a day early.

I felt very adult turning in my paper a day, a whole day early. And then I spent that day that instead of, frantically procrastinating, and then working on my paper at the last minute, I spent the day putting shingles up on the little Portico awning and it turned out so cute. I am also planning on putting some Cedar shingles up on the dormers and adding Cedar flower boxes beneath the windows in the front of the house.

I think those three simple elements of wood up in the dormers on the Portico, and then the flower boxes we’ll add so much charm. And just even doing that one little Portico section to begin and. Infinitely increased the charm and the cuteness of this little house that we have.

Connecting To Teens

A couple months ago, I sent a call out on Instagram for podcast topics. One topic that came up multiple times was the idea of connecting with your teenagers. I think. Some of you are going through the same thing that I am, that you’re in a whole new chapter of parenthood, raising babies and toddlers is different from raising school.

Age kids is different from raising teens and there are a lot of new challenges and as well as a lot of new, exciting things that happen in the teen years overall, I think that it’s something that I personally feeling prepared in. A lot of my, especially in my recent years I’ve felt more and more confident as a parent.

This has been quiet a blind-siding challenge for me, the culmination of hormones and identity and personality development and individuation as well as my own sort. Tr balancing where to be flexible, where to hold guidelines, how to maintain connection throughout. This has been an interesting challenge that has brought up.

I think a lot of different vulnerabilities, both in myself and in my husband and in our kids that were unexpected. So, I am excited to dive in today. And as I was preparing for this episode, I want to share a couple resources that I turned to before a couple days ago, just saying I don’t, I just need to talk to a person who is a little bit ahead of the game than I and called my friend, Brooke.

Resources: The Self Driven Child

So, a couple resources that have been helpful over the last few years, just to prepare for the upcoming new adventure of having teenagers are a couple books and an Instagram professional who now has a book. And I will share that with you, but a book that I think has been just absolutely defining in my ability to wrap my head around this is called the self-driven child.

I’ve mentioned it on the show before, but if you feel like you’re bumping up against parenting a teen, this is a book that may be helpful for you in just establishing some ideas of what is best for them. That may be different than what you expect.

Resources: Good Inside

Another resource that I really have loved is a child psychologist on Instagram named Becky Kennedy or Dr. Becky, her Instagram is mostly geared towards younger kids, but I’ve found myself resonating repeatedly with the things that she’s saying and how they can apply to older kids as well.

The truth and the foundation of what she talks about is the idea that our kids are good inside. And she has a new book that just arrived on my doorstep yesterday. And I was flipping through its last night. And there’s a couple things I wanted to call out from this book that I think will help to frame and form foundation for the conversation that I share with Brooke.

One of the ideas that Becky talks about a lot, Dr. Becky is to connect before you correct. And that connection really is foundational for your relationship to be able to grow and for the development of your children, to be able to continue. There’s one section in her book where the chapter’s called building connection capital, and she talks about it like this, when.

Parents are struggling with your kids. It almost always boils down to one of two problems. Either children don’t feel as connected to their parents as they want to, or the children have some struggle or unmet need that they feel alone with. And then she gives this metaphor. Imagine your child has an emotional bank account.

The currency in the bank account is connection and their behavior at any given moment reflects the status of their bank account or how depleted it is when we really connect to a child and see their experience and allow their, for their feelings. We build this capital and having a healthy amount of connection, capital leads, kids to be able to feel confident, capable, safe, and worthy.

Becky goes on to say positive feelings on the inside lead to good behavior on the outside behavior like cooperation, flexibility, and regulation. So, to create positive change, we must first build connection. Which will lead kids to feel better, which will then lead them to behave better. But note behavior comes last.

We cannot start with behavior. We must start with connection. I think this is such a profound and central core tenant to parenthood and especially to parenthood with teens, which I think is an age where they start to pull away more and it becomes even more difficult to connect with them than earlier.

It’s also at this stage in parenthood where we might be requesting a lot or expecting a lot of our kids that expectations. Sometimes those guidelines or rules can be big spenders. They’re big connection, capital spenders. We need to be even bigger connection, capital builders than spenders. We need to add.

More positive connection into our relationships than we deplete through requests, expectations, boundary, setting rules, and all those other things that feel like they come naturally to parenthood, but they are secondary to the connection that we need to form. This is just one insightful tidbit from this book good inside, which I will highly recommend.

I’ll link it in the show notes. I think good for parents of all ages and stages. Maybe even better for younger kids. I feel like it applies very heavily to like toddlers and middle grade and kind of maybe bridges some of the gap as you’re heading into those teenage years. So, if we take this at just kind of face value, connection is foundational.

Connect before you Correct

Connection is important. Connection with our teens is even more important than correction than those boundaries. How do we get there? What do we do with that knowledge? What if you’re having a hard time connecting with your teen, how do you start to shift the relationship so that you can reconnect?

Or if you have a great relationship right now, and you’re afraid of it changing, or you’re worried of it shifting and changing, how do you maintain that threat of connection? Even through the changes that will naturally occur during these developmental stages. That is the question that I called in my friend, Brooke Romney for Brooke Romney is a writer, a speaker, an educator.

Brooke Romney Introduction

She’s a mom of four. She’s really homed in on this relationship to your teenagers, how to celebrate your teens, how to help stay in connection with your teens, how to teach your teens, how to build up your teens. It’s fun to follow along with her on Instagram. I will link her Instagram in the show notes, and she’s also written a couple of really great books.

The first is called, I Like Me Anyway.

The second is called 52 Modern Manners for Today’s Teens, which is a cool calendar style flip book where each week. Of the 52 weeks of the year, you can focus in on one of these modern manners as a discussion point, something to share with your kids and to talk about at the dinner table or on the way to soccer practice.

And I was so excited to see on Instagram that her, 52 Modern Manners for Today’s Teens, Volume 2 comes out right now. So, it will be available when this episode releases you can hop on and find where you can locate a copy of that for yourself and your own teens. In addition to all. Outside accomplishments.

Brooke is just a wonderful person, a kindhearted generous, authentic real friend. And I was so grateful to be able to reach out to her with truly like 48 hours’ notice and say, I would love to just chat with you about this because I could use some help in this area, and she so graciously accepted and hopped on.

And so, I’m excited to share our conversation with you right now.

And just as a tiny caveat, every time I do an interview, there is the question of audio quality. I made a mistake this time, and I forgot to change microphones. When we were recording the interview. An app that I like to use for interviews.

So, Brook’s audio sounds pretty good. Mine is a little bit trickier. I’ve done all the adjusting that I can with my limited audio editing knowledge. So, forgive, lean in close. Hopefully you are going to understand everything that you need to from this episode, despite the less than professional quality audio, this time, I promise that the conversation is worth it.

So, thank you in advance for your patience with that. Okay. Let’s dive in.

We have Brooke Roney here today. Brooke. I’m so excited to sit down and chat with you today. Me too.

Conversation with Brooke Romney

Brooke: Thanks for having me to talk about one of my favorite topics.

Miranda: Yeah, of course. Before we rec press record, I was just laughing with you about how. I have now a 13-year-old and 11-year-old and an eight-year-old.

And I love them all. And I feel like the older two, maybe the oldest one is going to put me into my grave before he graduates from high school. And this is all just like the, I feel like the turning of the page into this new chapter of truly parenting teens started like less than a year ago.

And I already feel so out of my depth, I feel like I’m doing it all wrong. And I was, preparing to record this episode about how to connect to your teenagers. And I was like, I don’t know how, so I’m going to call in an expert. and I’m so happy your perspective, because I think a lot of people are blindsided by what the expectation of raising teenagers.

And then the reality of having these grown, growing humans. In your home. I feel like the one main challenge that I’ve come across and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this is my teens are too old for me to treat like toddlers. Like I can’t pick them up and contain them in the middle of a tantrum. And I can’t like to put their shoes on for them.

Of course, my, they don’t really have a problem putting on their shoes, but just right in a metaphorical sense, but they’re too young to say, okay, great. Find hands off, do it all yourself. Then like they’re in this real in between stage and it’s a balancing act.

Brooke: And I think adding to that, that they think they’re adults.

So, they don’t. You should do anything. And then also they’re not like pulling their weight, making big di they’re not doing any adult things yet. And so, it’s a very interesting space. And we were just chatting before we started record. And I think what parents don’t realize is everyone feels like this.

Even the best parents, even the best, even with the best kids, truly like it’s this weird space. And no one really knows how to do it their first time. And then you get another kid who’s exactly different. Got the complete opposite. And so, it all feels like the first time, every time you do teenage years.

And so, I know you’re not alone in that feeling and I felt the exact same way. And truly the reason why I talk so much about teenagers is cuz I just feel like I did everything. With my first, like my first go around, I was like, oh, my word, like hindsight, boy, I could have done this. I could have done this.

I did a lot of things for what I knew. And I give myself a lot of grace for that, because it’s all I knew, and I was figuring it out and he was figuring it out. But there is. So, there’s such a learning curve. And when you’re talking about, that first issue,

I think as parents, we just have this desire for us kids to like us and to open to us and for us to be someone in their corner, yet you still have to say, I need you to put the dishes in the sink and that doesn’t fill very like relationship building.

And one of the things that I have learned over the last few years is that you can be loving kind open and have great boundaries and teach and give them what they need. I think for a long time, I thought that. I needed to just be this fun, full of love parents. And what I realized, like a few years into it was putting those boundaries in place and letting them know that there still are expectations is what grows the relationship.

Otherwise, they just take advantage of you. And they’re like, they’re smart, sweet. My mom really wants a relationship with me. My mom really wants me to like her. My mom really wants me to the open with her. Let me just manipulate it. Let me just do whatever I can to get what I want.

And they’re no different than any human, but also way less mature when it comes to things. And so, figuring out that delicate balance of holding boundaries and having a great relationship is something that I’m continuously working on. Sometimes like it’s a home run and sometimes it’s an absolute failure still like on teenager.

Number three, who’s almost 16. There’s still. Times when I’m like, wow, I was horrible at that. And I didn’t do anything that I preached because I was in the moment.

Miranda: And it’s hard so hard. I think it’s good to hear that. First, the validation that like we’re all in this together. I think every mom probably in our own way feels like I’m the only one who’s ever going through this exact thing or this, situation, or emotional roller coaster.

And it, it is just so nice. The value of hearing other people’s stories and other people say this was hard for me too. I think sometimes in the moment we forget to share, both for privacy and for, it’s hard to be vulnerable. And I feel like I feel deeply as my kids get older, that I don’t want, like their story is their own to share and not mine to talk about all the time, so it’s tricky. But it’s nice to know that this is a universal. The transitions of parenthood are universally challenging for all of us. And I also love this idea of both, and you can create boundaries and hold to those boundaries and be kind loving and gentle. And those things are not mutually exclusive.

I, you express so beautifully wanting to be like a fun, loving, connected, friend to your teen. And I feel like my natural inclination is the opposite. It’s much easier for me to be a boundary holder and just to be like, this is the way that it is hard stop than to do that with all the love that I want to have.

And I do, I’m not a naturally angry person and I don’t really feel like I even angry. It’s just more really committed to, to, this is what I said, and this is how it’s going to be, and like too bad, and There’s something in, in there’s something in the middle there that’s you can hold that boundary.

And just really love and be kind to the kids. These teens.

Brooke: My husband is like you are, and it took him quite a while to realize the value of a relationship. And because he is so value driven, he’s just incredible in those ways. And it sounds like that’s how you are too. It takes a little bit of time to become more flexible and realizing what his priorities are.

And I’m just going to give you an example, because this is something that we have been, going through. So, he loves people to clean up their stuff, and that is important to him. And we have my 17-year-old. Incredibly busy and he’s just a mess. Now. I resonate with that because I am also a mess and having a mess around me does not bother me.

I can function highly in chaos and he’s the same way. And he is this exceptional kid doing a lot of things and he’s super busy. And my husband, it used to drive my husband crazy that his room was just a disaster. And so, for quite a few years not years, but for a while he would just get on him and get on him and get on him.

And then he got to a point where he was like, okay, I’m just going to shut his door. Then it doesn’t affect me. So, he started shutting his door and that worked well, and then, and we still obviously had some expectations like, Hey, on Saturday you got to clean it up, but it was it’s bad.

And the probably about. Three months ago, my husband was watching all he’s a senior now and he plays football. He works. He does well in school. He’s connected to friends and probably about three months ago, my husband just said, you know what? This doesn’t matter to him. And it really matters to me.

And so just out of love, he started just picking up his room. He doesn’t do it all the time, but when he feels overwhelmed by my son’s room, that my son does not feel overwhelmed by. He just walks in, and he starts hanging up clothes and he makes his bed. And this kid’s an awesome kid. And so, this it’s different if your kid is like pushing boundaries and just trying to make you miserable in certain things.

But as I watched my husband evolve to that place and he just, it’s not an issue anymore, but it has taken so much maturity and so much growing and there is such a beautiful relationship. And just that signal to him, we have all kinds of expectations for our kids. But that one doesn’t matter to my son very much.

It really matters to my husband. And when my son walks in and sees his room clean and knows his dad did it like that is love and boundaries and power that you cannot exchange. And sometimes I think for my husband, he thought if I do that, it is going to enable him.

And if he’s a kid who’s sitting and playing the Xbox for 10 hours and not cleaning his room, that’s a different story. But when you see your kid giving effort, how beautiful to be able to meet them in that space. And it’s just one of my favorite kind of growing stories. And it started with being mad.

It started, and then it went to, how can I deal with this? And then it went to this beautiful love relationship acceptance of who someone is and validating all the great things that they still bring to the table.

Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What a great example of seeing your son as a human separate and individual from himself, from your husband and recognizing that maybe they don’t value the same things.

And that’s okay. I think that this is the if I’m trying to articulate what has been a challenge about, there’s lots of things, but one of the things that has been challenging is having this little person come into themself as an individual, as a, as an adult. Like for the first time, I’m starting to see these, the bud of adulthood, right?

Because as a little tiny one, I feel like they’re just the little ducklings following you around. And, like if any type of conflicts that you have in not to minimize all the challenges of young parenting, because that is an exceptionally difficult. Phase for other reasons but you can pick ’em up and put ’em into the car seat and you can just tie their shoes on.

And like there are a lot more things you can overcome, like you’re bigger, totally, you’re bigger and farther and you can take care of some of those things. And when they start to come into their own and you start to see them as adults, like for the first time, not that they are full adults, but they’re becoming the adults that they are going to be.

And I think that there has been this kind of a little bit of recognition and awareness that the things that are important to me and that I really value may or may not end up being things that my kids really value. And that is okay, that’s natural. That’s good. I am not a replica of my own parents.

And I like myself. I like the person that I am, and I like the way that we’re different. And so, I also see the value in that for my kids. It, there is a shifting in in role though, when I start to say. You, I don’t, I’m not only creating guidelines that are for the things that I, and your dad value as the kind of parents of this household.

But we also need to then accept and invite into the conversation. What are the things that you value as a teenager and how do we create guidelines that, that also encompass those things and how do we respect those things? Even if they’re not even if we don’t totally understand them. And so, I think this room clean is a good example of that.

Your son’s I’m busy, I’m playing football, I’m doing school. I don’t care if my socks are on the floor. And being able to, and I also feel like some of those things as you become a maybe not, but as you become a full adult, it’s like sink or swim, like by when you’re living in an apartment by yourself, and you have friends over.

Yeah. Are you going to run around and pick up all your socks? Or do you just not care? And I guess like when push comes to shove, and you are an adult. then you get to make those decisions and maybe it isn’t as important for it to be fully reinforced a million times as a kid. I don’t know.

Brooke: And one of the things, so I am in a lucky spot, so I have a son who is an adult

Miranda: and yeah. Remember ages of your kids. You have four boys.

Brooke: Yep. So, 2018, almost 18, almost 16, and then 11. Okay.

Miranda: Yeah. And so, you, in the middle of all that young tween hood all the way through to adulthood. Yeah.

Brooke: And one of the coolest experiences that I, it was just awesome.

So, he was out on his own and he started doing things that we do at home. And my oldest was not super excited about most of the things that we did at our house. He was his own person. And to watch him. Take on all these things that we had done while he was growing up, that he acted like he was not interested in.

He thought they were lame and then to watch him do them as an adult. And at, when I said this to him, he is oh like I was listening. And I liked the way we did stuff at our house. I just didn’t really want you to know that I love the truth, honestly. And I think, okay. And as I’m watching him as an adult, he does so many things that I thought he didn’t care about or thought he was lame and, or thought we were lame, but they made a difference.

And I always think oh, if parents of teenagers could just understand, like they’re still watching, they’re still learning. They’re still listening. Like all these things are it matters, all those things you’re doing and all those things, it seems like they hate it still matters. I got a compliment from a mom about one of my teenagers, which was so sweet by the way of any parents ever sharing something nice about your teenager to you is such a gift.

So, she shared that, and I shared that with my son, and I was like, wow, babe thanks so much for doing that while you were at this person’s house. Like that, just, I love that you did that. He goes, oh mom, like we do all the things that you teach. It’s just not when you’re around. And then my 15-year-old was like, yeah, like we totally do.

We want to be good people. We just don’t always want to do it at our house. And it was one of those moments where its you guys are such punks, but I’m so glad like that makes me happy that they really are taking in what you’re teaching. What’s important to your values. And maybe they just always don’t want to show it when they’re with you.

Miranda: Yeah. And part of that is, is probably developmental, right? That they’re in this real differentiation from family stage. And so, when they’re away from you, they can take, like being an individual is doing some of the things that you do as a family. But when your home, they don’t want to be so intertwined.

So, they maybe choose I’m going to act I don’t care. I’m going to not do it when I’m here, because that would just be like playing along. But I take those things with me. That’s so interesting and annoying right. But great. I don’t know. It’s a funny, it’s a funny thing.

Oh man. Kids are so interesting. So, I want to focus in on some ideas that you have. Connecting with your teens throughout all the challenges and there’s fun parts too. I have to say it is challenging and there, I feel like everything is heightened. Like almost like when I was in newborn stage that I was so utterly exhausted and just felt like I could sleep for a year.

And then also the sweetest moments were so sweet. Is this, dramatic roller coaster, which I don’t know if that’s healthy. I feel like I’m back in that with my teens that I have when we have these fun moments, they are so heightened, just so lovely. And maybe it’s cuz they’re a little more fleeting and few and far between that, I’m like, this is the best I have this sidekick that we can have a real conversation.

And when they act like they care deeply and it’s sweet. And then also the opposite of that is when things are rough, I feel like. I am just like; I feel like I can’t do it. I’m going to just give up I’m going to go back. But it’s wide. So, through all of that, the ups, and the downs, the good and the bad, what are some suggestions that you have are some ideas for maintaining connection, just that true love and connection person to person?

Brooke: I have a couple of ideas that have worked for me with, and my boys have all very different personalities. And so, there’s a few things that I feel like work across the board when it just comes to connection.

BE A FUN PARENT

So, the first thing is for me, sometimes you just must be fun. Like there are, there is just this intense feeling when you have teenagers, cuz you’re like, oh my gosh, you’re growing up.

You’re going into the world. You don’t know this. How do you already not know this? This is so bad. What have I not taught you? And it feels they went from this place where everyone gives them grace to this place where you feel like everyone thinks they should already know and be and do.

And so that kind of comes back to you as a parent oh, wow. Like how do they not know this? Or why are they acting like this? So, my first thing is you still just need to have fun. Sometimes it’s not a parenting moment. Sometimes it’s not a teaching moment. Sometimes they don’t deserve the fun, but you must have it.

They value teenagers, value, people who are fun, they just do. And so, if you’re not one of those people, they are not going to value you. And I’m not saying every day, but I’m saying like, sometimes they need to just see you like throw caution to the wind and yes, it’s not in our budget and no, I never stop for a treat because we, but we are heck yeah, like right now.

And guess what, it might be a time when you’ve been a total. This isn’t a treat reward. This is just because I just want to be in the moment with you. And so, like really making sure you have those fun moments where they’re like, yeah, that was awesome. My mom’s so cool. Or where you’re dancing in the kitchen or whether you’re, just being like, yeah let’s just go for a drive or you totally wanted to go minute your golfing today.

It’s not your birthday. Like I’m taking you, let’s go let’s minute your golf, whatever that is, whatever matters to them. So that is my first thing. I think I got serious as a teen parent of everything’s a life lesson and they’re just, they can just get so over it, stop it and just be for a little bit.

So that’s one of them.

TALK WITH YOUR TEEN

The second thing is finding some things to talk about that aren’t when you have a teen, I feel like conversations suddenly become like very serious all the time. And even if they’re not serious, a lot of times they become like little bit like nagging, like who are you hanging out with?

Who did you eat lunch with? Like very let me get into your life.  

Miranda: To say flip it around. Yeah. Like I want to know all these things. Not only because I’m interested, but I also want to tell you how to do it better a hundred percent.

Brooke: And they see like right through it. Oh, for sure. And so, figuring out some like things that you want to talk about that are out of the serious space and out of their space, whether it’s politics or like movies or video games, whatever it is that feels this safe, neutral. Spot that you can just bring up something cool.

Oh my gosh, did you hear about this? And I know politics sound serious to some, but for sometimes for kids, it’s interesting. Or even if it’s like fashion or if it’s makeup, whatever it is, sometimes they just want to connect. But they’re like, so tired of being like this is who I sat with at lunch, and this is what my history teacher said.

Yeah. I’m on top of it. It’s if you think about your friends, if you had a friend that was constantly draining you, you will not choose that all the time. That’s not who you’d go to. And so, as a parent, you still have all those conversations, but there needs to be an and to that. And we talk about mountain biking, and we talk, whatever it is.

So, finding some more neutral spaces that you can connect over. In addition to that, finding things that you bond over, whether it’s like a Netflix show or a video game or how to do their hair. Whatever it is. And I know this one was hard for me cuz I’m someone that doesn’t really like to waste my time and so a lot of things that my kids liked felt like a waste of time for me to spend time in.

And so sometimes it’s a big sacrifice to, if they like to game and you’re like, oh my gosh, tell me about Fortnite. What are you doing on this when I don’t care at all? Not even a little tiny bit sounds ridiculous. But doing it anyway. Yes. Or introducing them to a show that you love or letting them introduce you to a show they love.

And you’re like, I only watch TV like two hours a week and I would not want to watch this for my two hours a week. It’s okay. Watch it anyway. Or find a show that them. Another thing that I have found to be awesome is letting my teens know that I want them. So, for a long time with little kids, anytime I got to escape, I really like to use that like for my alone time.

INVITE THEM ALONG

And one of the things that has been awesome that I’ve started doing is when I’m going somewhere and it’s cool. Cuz when you have teenagers, you don’t have to bring everyone. So, it’s awesome. Yeah. But yeah, offering them a chance to be with me.

And a lot of times it’s not even what I want to do, but then when I do it, it’s awesome. So, I’ll just say, Hey, I’m running to Costco. Do you want to come? If you come, you can choose like meals come and they come or I’m running to the grocery store. If you come, you choose cereal and they’ll come because then they get to choose cereal.

And so, letting them know that you want them in your space. and then sometimes I’m a little bit over the top on verbal, but I’ll be like, thank you so much for coming with me. That was so fun having you at the store with me. And that might not always be like your first choice. Maybe you did want some alone time, but I think our kids just like everyone, they know when they’re wanted.

And especially if they’re going through hard times at school or feeling very included by friends to have people in their life that don’t just say they love you, but show I like you, I want you around. And sometimes the best time to do this is when you don’t.

Miranda: Yeah, tell me more about that.

Brooke: So, one of the tools that I found with parenting teens that has really helped me is, and this is maybe weird, but taking myself out of body and saying who do I want to be for them? I know how our relationship can grow. So how do I want our relationship to grow right now?

And sometimes that allows me to be a different person than is natural for me. Cause I think we all, there’s an idea like, oh, I want to be authentic, but honestly, we really want to be our best selves. And especially with our kids, like my authentic self is don’t bug me.

Miranda: But that’s right in that moment for sure.

Brooke: Yeah. But that’s like not the relationship that I want. And so, I take myself out of body and think who do I want and need to be for my child right now? And the cool thing about this is that a lot of times what we don’t want to do becomes like a great moment. A

nd so yes, there’s some sacrifice, but then I’m always so glad they came to Costco with me, yes, I wanted to listen to my book, or I wanted a few minutes on my own or I really didn’t want somebody to ask about, can we get this while I’m at Costco? But when I invite someone in and then we connect and we have this great moment, even if it’s just like 10 or 20 minutes, I come back and I’m so grateful that I chose the harder option.

And a lot of times with teens, the harder option is usually the better option in the long run. And I think our relationships are built on just all these small moments like that moment for your kid to say oh, like my mom really wanted me to come with her to Costco. That’s kind of weird. That was fun.

I really liked being there with her. So, I think that’s just and even like in really hard situations, taking myself out of body and being like, okay, I want to scream and yell. I want to say, what in the heck were you thinking you’re such an idiot better, like why in the world would you do that?

You realize what the consequences are taking myself out of the moment and saying who do I need to be? Like, what. If I say this, will it bring connection? Will it let him know? He can come to me. Will it make our relationship better? Will it help him solve his problems? Because he has someone in his corner as opposed to like wanting to just shame and tell him he is an idiot, because truly that is true also, but who do I want to be?

Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Some thoughts that I had were this idea of a, like inviting them along. And so there two things that you shared that I feel like I love individually. And I also love them in the reverse one is doing the things that they want to do and having fun with them on their level in their world.

Even if you’re not in that interested truly, which I feel that Fortnite, so deeply Fortnite cup head Minecraft. We’ve got it all happening over here and I’m like, I have no idea. I tried to play Minecraft once with my middle son and I just was like lost in a cave. The whole, I could not figure.

I was like, this is. A real challenge. And he just kept having to rescue me. And I don’t think he’s ever invited me to placements cuz he is she’s not that fun to play with. But there’s this stepping over into I’m not that interested, but I love you. And like I’m interested in you.

And so, it’s because I love you and I’m interested in you and who you are and curious about who you are, then that’s a natural, like next step is okay, I’m going to for you do these things. And we expect people to do that for us all the time. I expect my husband. And he’s lovely and does come along.

But there’s lots of things that we’ve done in our relationship that he only does because I am interested in it. He doesn’t care. He comes along because he loves me, and we do that same thing for our kids. And inviting them along for things that that we may prefer to do alone. One thing I was thinking I went, I did a short road trip a couple, I guess a month or so ago.

INVITE THEM INTO YOUR LIFE

And Invited my 13-year-old along, it was just a weekend trip. I was going up to Ohio to get a tattoo from a tattoo artist that I have been obsessed with for several years. And she had an opening, and I was like, okay, whatever, I’m going to drive up to Ohio. It’s very random, but that’s what we did drove up to Ohio.

So, I invited my oldest along and it was a long, I mean it was nine-hour drive. We stayed in the hotel in Philadelphia or in Pennsylvania. And then we were at the convention all day on Saturday and then, drove home all-day Sunday. So, it was a long weekend of just the two of us, me, and my 13-year old’s.

And along the drive, we did a lot of like he would DJ and stuff. And we, he was listening to things, and I was learning some of the new music he’s listening to and stuff. And that was great. And then like around hour, six, seven, we were out of his stuff. And I said I’ve been listening to this interesting.

do you like, do you want to listen? And so, I turned on a book that I’ve been listening to that is it was a psychology book for my grad school program. And he initially was like, oh, I’ll just put my headphones in. But then he took his headphones out when he listened along with me. It’s a non-fiction book about positive psychology.

It was hilarious. But the number of times in the last month, that things from that book have come up in our conversation at home Milo will say, oh, is it that guy who was in that book or is that alligator story from that book? And I think sometimes we forget to also let our kids into our lives, let them know what we are into as adult people, not just as mom, but what am I listening to on a drive by myself as Miranda?

That’s something that’s a special thing for him to get to know me as me, just the way that I want to get to know him as him, not just as my son, but as a person and him getting to know me, not just as his mom, but also as a human with. Interests and, like a whole being there’s something kind of fun and interesting about that.

And I know that he has felt just because of the number of times that it’s come up in conversation or kind of like memory or a little bit of like inside joke. We listened to this thing together that he never would’ve chosen to listen to on his own. It’s, there’s been a couple times that we’ve done that where we’ve been driving together and we’re out of things.

And so, I turn on my book, the book I’m listening to that would never be something that he would choose, but then he’s into it. And there’s something about just that common humanity that’s starting to believe this for our young kids too, but it’s easier to see them as full people. The fuller adults they become, the fuller people they become.

Brooke: Yeah. I’m such a proponent of that too. And even. Even sometimes when we’re having like issues or problems, not personal ones, even talking that through with our teenager, maybe there’s something going on with a younger sibling and you’re like, oh, they’re just, I got to figure out how to help, peers get his homework done.

What do you think? Do you have any suggestions and bringing them in, to the things that we love to do to the problems that we’re having, they love being elevated. They love being elevated to those spaces and to those conversations. And that I think is such a good reminder. Even if you love something, like turning them onto that whether it’s music or a show or hobby, even if they don’t act like they’re like super into it.

One of the things you’ll find is they’ll tell them. Oh yeah. I like to listen to this band, and they’re very cool because of it, but it’s their mom’s band. And, so just remembering that, even if they’re not like super pumped about it, like you said, maybe in the moment them coming back to it, our kids want to connect with us.

I fully believe that every kid wants a relationship with their parents. And that I think is just a universal truth. And a lot of times it’s up to the parents to figure out how that’s going to work. And so going into it, thinking like my kid does want a relationship with me. I don’t know how that’s going to look, but they want it and figuring out what you can do to make that happen.

Miranda: I love your example of that. There’s something about us being responsible for maintaining that tie because they may come in and out of it and I’ve noticed my husband and I laugh about this all the time that like we’ll have a real kind of conflict.

And five minutes later it’s as if it never happened for our kids. And I’m still reeling, like still wrapping my head around what just happened or, and to then recognize this is hard, it’s hard to be a teenager. There are things going on, hormonally socially, emotionally that they have never imagined.

And I, I’m not I believe that I’m still progressing and developing even as an adult and I’ve gone through a lot of that. I’ve got a fully formed prefrontal cortex. I am, I’ve, I’m educated and I’m emotionally mature. If one of us is going to be the one to hold steady disconnection, it must be me.

It must be me who says, okay, in my head, I give myself a second to say that was weird and I’m not totally over it yet in my head, but I’m the one who’s going to say, great. You’re happy now. Let’s be happy. Now let’s move on.

Brooke: I think that was so brilliant. What you just said. That was so brilliant because you’re right.

It is up to us. They are going through a really hard time. And I, cycle back to when you were in middle school and the things you were trying to deal with and then amplify it by 50 to a hundred because of the new world that they live in and how many more things they must deal with.

Miranda: And I always think it was hard enough without social knowing what all your friends were doing all the time.

Brooke: Yes. It was hard enough. And giving them a lot of grace, but then also I never like to have the mantra of oh, your life is so hard or anything like that. Like you are well equipped. You are well equipped to deal with the life that you must deal with the world that we have. You have parents who have helped you.

You have teachers who are helping you navigate, you are strong, you can do this. Yes. It’s hard. And you are well equipped for it.

Miranda: Yeah, I love that. And that kind of brings me to I had taken a couple notes and you hit on really everything that I was curious about.

BECOME OBSESSED WITH THEIR STRENGTHS

The last thing I had wrote down was be obsessed with their strengths just, and that’s where you’re just right there. Like you’re resourceful, you’re strong. You’re smart. Do you make decisions that I don’t agree with sometimes? Yes, absolutely. And I remember, I feel like one of the defining characteristics of teenager hood is being, so self-aware in all your negatives and I must remind myself, I don’t need to tell him that he.

Isn’t doing well enough in school or that he, like needs to take a shower or whatever. Like he is aware of these things that are of what would be perceived in aptitudes or perceived weaknesses, or fault teenagers are. That’s really one of, the hard things about being a teen is suddenly recognizing that you are not as cool as you thought you were when you were nine and being obsessed with their strengths and reinforcing their strengths and recognizing them and calling them out.

Because of our negativity bias, we will automatically just assume whatever small bad thing is going on is a big, bad thing going on. And we must counterbalance that with big, good things, recognizing big, good things that they have going for them. And I love the way that you said in your verbal thank you so much for coming with me to Costco.

It meant so much for you to spend this time with me. That’s a thing that could easily go unsaid. But putting that into, filling up their jar or whatever metaphor you want to use, where they like filling their bucket, those things matter. And that’s something that I’m trying to remain centered in is this idea of these kids are incredible kids.

And one of my biggest jobs is going to be reminding them of that as they go through as they navigate the difficulties of growing up.

Brooke: Yeah. One of the things that I like to say is that it’s hard to, it’s hard to push away a person who’s constantly building you up. You may not like them all the time, but it’s hard to say I’m not interested in you being in my life.

If you are the person that is like on my team, if you are my fan, you, I, there’s plenty of times where my kids are bugged by me or, mad at me or whatever that but they’re not going to not want me in their life because I am cheering for them so hard. And any time someone says they’re really struggling with a relationship with their teenager.

COMPLIMENT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE

The very first thing I say is start complimenting them as often as possible. And they’ll be like, there’s nothing to compliment. And I’m like, then do whatever you can find. Hey, thanks so much for waking up this morning. Yeah. So happy to see you. Thanks so much for waking up like that.

Normally isn’t complimented. But you know what, if that’s all you got, that’s all you got and what happens is it completely changes how your teenager feels about you? Suddenly, they’re like, wait, my, my mom’s my fan. Like why is she being so nice? No one is going to open to somebody who’s always seeing the negative or never even noticing the positive.

And so that is truly the very first thing I say to any parent who’s struggling is spend the next. Just noticing every tiny thing. Hey, thank you so much for taking your dish to the sink. Even though I am freaking told you to put it in the dishwasher, this is so annoying. Like you’re going to not say the last part and be like, thanks so much for putting your dish to the sink but stop yourself.

Ask how do I need to build this relationship? Whatever it is. Or even like the minute you notice them doing something, oh, you already got started on your homework. You’re so awesome. That’s so responsible even though, they’re just going to open their book and then pull their phone out.

Nope. We’re going to see the good, this is what we’re doing. And it really changes things. And some people’s relationships are so like, They need to just like, send it in a text or put a post-it note on their bed. They’re like, things are icy. But when you start noticing the positive, I have noticed things like though those walls start to thaw, and things start to come down and they start to just have a little crack in there for you where you can start building a relationship.

But people who try to build relationships or fix things with someone that doesn’t think they like them. None of us are motivated to do that. No, like when, if you think that someone doesn’t like you, nothing you do ever works out, you’re never good enough. The effort you want to put into that relationship is very low.

But when you see someone who’s like building you excited about you, noticing all the good you’re like, okay, all right, fine. I might let her have a win every now and then,

Miranda: Yeah. I love that. I love that idea of you want to keep your biggest fan around, even if you. Like pretend like you, don’t that’s not the person that you’re going to say, never mind, see you later.

Especially if it’s sincere, especially if it’s coming from a place of, if it’s not self-righteous or deprecating, but it’s sincere noticing real. Every single person has inherent worth and value and beauty. And even if they’re not doing all the things that you wrote on the list for them to do, they’re doing good things every day.

And we just must, this is good for me. I’m giving myself a pep talk here. My son’s going to be home from school in a few hours. What is he doing? That is just absolutely, what are the good things? What can I call out? What can I state, and I think for me and for him and for them, all my kids will eventually become teenager.

There’s something powerful about not just thinking it I think it does good for us to notice it, but notice it and say it, notice it and write it down, notice it and text it. He can’t read my mind and the number of times that he goes to bed and, Dave and I are sitting in our bed kind of processing the day and we notice together gosh, things were rough here and there, but did you see that?

Or did you notice that? And then we go to sleep and I’m like, no, I need to start, writing those things in a little note and leaving ’em by the breakfast table or whatever. So that I don’t keep those things in my head on heart that he knows that they know that my kids are aware that they are.

I think they’re the coolest and nothing they do. Or I think I tell them from time to time that specific, like nothing you could do would make us love you less, but there’s a difference between having someone love you unconditionally because they’re your parent. And knowing that they like you, that they notice that’s so important that they care about you as a person, not just as a son or daughter or, child, but because of who you are, that’s I think in different phases of your life, even more powerful than knowing that you’re like unconditionally loved.

I think it matters more to a teen to be liked than to be loved.

Brooke: I think it does too. I think it does too. Especially in those early years when they’re like figuring out friends and it doesn’t feel like lots of people like them to have your parents truly. And that was something that I realize with my teenagers is yeah, like being loved.

It almost feels like you must like if I parent, like you must love me, but being liked. And that’s why being wanted, wanting them around, being excited about what they’re excited about thinking they’re cool and letting them know, and like you said, not in a way that’s oh, it’s just my mom, but like a genuine awesome way teenagers.

See through things like they see through BS fast, especially in their parents. So, making sure that what you’re saying is true and they know it’s true. And even sometimes I think parents go, like they try to build up when it’s not true. And that doesn’t always work. They see through that when your kid is feeling so in this awkward stage, and you just keep on going.

You’re so beautiful. No, you’re so beautiful. You’re so beautiful. Dude, no one thinks I’m cute. Stop. Like that’s so annoying. Yeah. So, find something else that you can like genuinely to compliment, what can you do? Stop saying I have beautiful skin. My, I am acne everywhere.

Like I know you’re telling a lie right now. That’s not true. Like move on something. That’s true. They know when you’re just like playing a game, and so helping them know that like you’re genuinely on their side. You’re so excited about them. You see the best in them, it’s it really can change things for them, but also for you because you’re starting to notice, and it changes the way you feel about your child as you focus on the positive.

And then one of the things that I think is the best is just the positive feedback loop starts happening. As you start noticing the good things, they want to do more good things. And that’s what I found in my kids. People genuinely like to make other people happy. And when they see something small makes a difference to someone, they’re like.

Okay. Like maybe I’ll do that again. That felt good to me. That felt good to them.

Miranda: So. Yeah. And that’s such a great point that that felt good to me that felt good to them. We had for whatever reason; I’m not going to complain. We had a great weekend teenager weekend. We’ve had some rough ones.

This last one was exceptional for whatever reason. And I, at one point was driving. I took my oldest to get lunch at a local place nearby. And on the way he, he was saying something about how he had been helpful all weekend. He had been pretty, busy, engaged in things that we hadn’t even asked him to do, which is so unusual, but also was like, we tried to be really on wow, this is so great.

And I said that was really, it’s been cool. How have you felt about it? How does it make you feel? And he was like, it feels good. It feels good to be helpful. It feels good to be doing things that, that I know make a difference in our family. And I said, is it easier? Do you think it’s easier or harder than not doing, not being helpful?

He’s it’s probably harder but worth it. And I was like, those are connections. That’s not just me saying be helpful. You’re going to feel better. It’s inviting him to consider what does it feel like when you’re actively adding value to our family versus just taking it and letting him resonate.

And I, wasn’t trying to say it’s good or bad or better, I was just like, what do you think about it? And for him to come to that conclusion on his own it’s harder to be helpful, but it feels better. I’m like that’s a building block right there that hopefully will con you know, because I still must learn that for myself.

Like things are when things are hard in my own life and work and things that I’m doing. I’m like, I just want to go lay on the hammock and, and I have days that I do that and that’s fine. And it feels good to be actively engaged in adding value outside of yourself. and it’s hard and it also feels good.

Brooke: I love that you gave him the opportunity to articulate how he felt too. And I love that you were also open to the fact that he might say, eh, I’d rather, yeah. I’d rather not, and that is so important that you were there for either answer. And you weren’t going to direct the conversation or make him feel a certain way.

And sometimes depending on who your kid is maybe they’re a punk and maybe they’re going to say eh, like helping folks. But you’re giving them the opportunity and whether they say something that’s true or something that isn’t true, it’s not like about a debate.

It’s oh, cool. Yeah, I get that too. Some days I want to lay in me. I feel ya I do have days that I’m happy about being productive, but I feel that too, and sometimes I think like we take everything our kids say, like you said earlier, so seriously. And if they’re that way right now, that means they will grow up to never be a productive member of society.

Miranda: Like you’re doing like that. Oh, it easy to take this one conversation and spin it forward into oh no, he’s going to be living in my basement until he’s 50. Like totally. It’s easy to get there.

Brooke: Yeah. But just being able to just take it as a moment and be like, yeah, 13, I didn’t really want to weed the garden either.

And look at me. I’m totally productive.

Miranda: Yeah. That’s been, my other main thing is just trying too just be here. This is right here today. This week, this day, this morning. What, what happens today does, I feel like it’s a funny thing, cuz we also know small things do make a big difference over the long term, but on the other side, small things are here.

They’re just for today. It’s fine. We’re going to get through it little, disruptions and conflicts and frustrations right now. Again, here I’m preaching to myself because I need to remember these things when I’m right in the middle of it. Like these things that feel like they’re going to have this lasting impact for the negative probably won’t were probably going to be just fine.

And so just allowing it to be what it is right now without spinning into existential crises, focus on the good, have fun together, recognize them as humans, give them all the compliments we can and sincerity and just get to know ’em love. ’em let, ’em get to know us.

Brooke: And then being okay with the boundaries and having expectations like that is part of being a human and being part of a family.

And it’s okay when he says that sucked and you can say, yeah, sometimes work does suck, and I totally get that. Thank you so much for helping anyway, like that’s part of being in our family, that, that’s an okay thing to say too. And you’re more of like on the, the rule expectation side.

So, we were talking a lot more about like fun and connection. And, but if there’s a parent that’s more on just like the fun and connection side, realizing how important also like those rules and expectations and boundaries are so that they can develop into the people that they need to be. And giving yourself some pats on the back for having those boundaries and expectations and rules.

That’s also important as we raise our kids into being the humans that they want to be, that they really do have both sides of that coin.

Miranda: Yeah, there’s front-loaded work as a family to do that. I think just six months ago we were working with a couple different counselors.

I have my own coach. We have family, counselor, and there’s I love just learning and having input from other people. I think it’s helpful and has been beneficial for all of us. And one of our counselors suggested that she just asked, do you have like family values? Do your kids know what your family values are?

And I’m like yeah, of course we do. We have been raised religious. Yeah. I’m like, we have all these values and she’s no, but do you have you defined for yourself your own family values? And I was like, oh, this is so funny. Cuz, I do this with coaching clients like clients that I coach all the time.

I do it with people in my courses all the time. I hadn’t sat down with my family of kids old enough to articulate their own ideas, to come up with our family values. What does our Anderson family right now care the most about? And., it was such a productive, wonderful discussion about, like I said, four or six months ago, we formulated our core values as a family that are different than my individual values or in, like we all collaborated.

And then it’s something that we go back to and we’ll, at family dinner will mention so what is this or which value does this thing build upon? And I think having that foundation then enabled us to measure our rules and boundaries and guidelines as a family against those things.

Are we enforcing the things that we care most about or are we enforcing sort of arbitrary things? And I feel like I didn’t realize there is a little bit of system to this, and it feels easier when you have done some of that work to have clarity as parents. And that my husband and I are very much on the same page.

Cuz, we established this all together. The kids are on the same page cuz they were involved in the process and we’re like, oh. Okay. Once you have an actual ladder to climb, it’s easy to know how to get to the top of the ladder, but if you don’t, if you’re just randomly, for years, we’ve just been like, oh, that’s a, that you shouldn’t do that.

Or that’s a rule or whatever, but we had never just actually formulated what these things are and what the consequences natural or benefits even privileges, privileged all these guidelines. And it seems maybe silly that we hadn’t done that but what a huge benefit to be able to sit down together, collaborate, establish boundaries together.

And I think a lot of times we outsource these things to institutions, whether community or religious or spiritual organizations that we belong to, that we just say we’ll just co-op whatever their guidelines are as our own guidelines. And that I feel like it requires a little bit of fine tuning for your own individual family circumstance and set of ideals.

So, you can learn broadly from those things. But none, I don’t think any big organization was meant as a one size fits all for every single individual situation. And so, to be able to learn from what’s out there, but then bring it home into our own family and say, what are the things that we, the five of us care most about?

How do we want those things to show up in our lives? How do we protect and love and care for each other? And then build our guidelines based upon those things was really a powerful exercise and has been something that that, that clarity has really helped to be able to have a more, have more understanding around the why.

Brooke: I think why is important to teenagers. Yeah. And so being able to know what that is, that when you say. And going back to taking your values from something, the problem is there are so many values out there. And I like pretty much believe in all of them, oh, good. Yes. Kindness. Yes. Independence. Yes. All these things, but they, you got to home in on the things that are very most important. Of course, we want to be people with a lot of values, with all these good values, but sometimes you can’t have for sure. All of them. And so, figuring out, drilling down what’s important to your family.

And, that kind of goes along with what you will put boundaries and consequences around. If some, if one of your values in your family is honesty, then when someone doesn’t tell the truth, They’re going to know, like that’s going to be a big deal and not that honesty doesn’t matter to every family, but maybe it’s not a top five.

Maybe you’re okay with stretching the truth here or there, or maybe you’re, whatever it is. And even though honesty’s important, maybe it’s just not a top five for you. Yeah. And I think that’s helpful for kids too, to know, if one of our values is like being careful with money, spending our money wisely, then when your kid asks for $200 shoes, you’re like, Hey, you know what?

That’s fun for you. And that’s like important if, and if you want to earn that’s great. Because one of our family values is like spending our money wisely. We’re saving up for this trip, cuz experiences are important to us. But if you want to earn your own shoes, like that’s awesome.

Instead of just being the lay mom who always says no to everything that, it’s Hey, you know what? This is this is one of our family values. Like I’m more than happy for you to earn the money for those $250 shoes. I personally don’t feel good about it because of where our values are at, but like you can do something different that’s awesome,

Miranda: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think that clarity is helpful for just foundational wise for identity, for boundary holding and where the flexibility can come into, oh, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for spending your time with me this morning. And on such short notice, I literally emailed you two days ago.

Brooke: I know I’m like Miranda plus teenagers. Yes. I will figure it out.

Miranda: I just appreciate it so much. And I, it is just helpful to feel like I’m not alone. There are other moms with who are going through it know who have kids older than mine, who are incredible people doing great things. And like it’s going to be okay; we’re going to make it through

So, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your experience with us. And I will make sure that I link to your website and your books and all the things so that my so that my listeners can follow up and learn more from you, your Instagram, which is just like such a F of knowledge and advice and tips.

So, thank you so much.

Brooke: Thanks Miranda. It was great to talk with you.

Miranda: Isn’t she? Great. Thank you so much for listening for tuning in to live free creative podcast today. And thank you again to Brooke for being so candid and open and sharing such insight and wisdom with me, friends. I want you to know that you are not alone.

You’re not alone in parenting your teenagers. You’re not alone in parenting your toddlers. You’re not alone in your struggle with having children. With infertility, you’re not alone in looking for a partner or trying to figure out what that relationship might look like. You’re not alone in wondering what you want to do with your life or how you want to spend your free time or what makes meaning in your every day we are in this together.

And I promise that everything that you’re going through is something that someone else has also felt. Sometimes it just takes reaching out to a friend, getting a little vulnerable, asking how people are feeling, what they’re dealing with and then being willing to share the challenges that we’re facing in our lives as well.

Whatever it is that you’re going through this week, I hope that that you’re not alone. I hope that this episode and any of the other episodes that I share here on live free, creative can help you feel less alone. Can help you feel a little bit more empowered, a little bit more interested, a little bit more curious about the questions that you’re facing.

Again. I want to thank you for tuning in. If you like the show, please leave a five-star rating and written review on iTunes. If you like this show, please share it with a friend or family member. Send it in a text or an email, or just mention it over coffee. If you like the show, take a screenshot, and share it on social media, link it so that your friends know what you’re listening to.

I appreciate you. I’m so glad that you’re here and I’ll chat with you again next week. Bye-bye.